A few weeks ago I received an e-mail asking if I was interested in selling one of my domain names. I’ve sent e-mails like this for clients of mine from time-to-time, so I thought nothing of it. I almost deleted it, but decided to respond to it on a lark, just to see what would happen. What I discovered was that I was walking into a scam. So if you own any domain names of your own, I highly encourage you to read on.
Here’s the original e-mail that I received:
To: Michael Ashby [michael@ashbygroup.com]
From: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
Date: 12/05/2004
Subject: flamingball.com for sale?Hi,
Our company is interested in your domain name. Is it available for sale?If it is available for sale please email me your asking price. (Please note that we are willing to buy only the domain name, not a web site)
In case you have no idea what price you should ask for, we recommend you to use free appraisal service at http://www.valdomains.com.
If our company can afford your domain I will contact you as soon as possible.
We run a software development company. We provide custom software development on different platforms (Unix, Windows, Apache etc). Selling and buying names is not our main business but we have done it quite long as a side business.
More information of our company: http://www.warmesoft.com
Best regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, Warmesoft
Seemed professional enough and on the surface quite valid. I went to the domain name Warmesoft.com and browsed it briefly. There wasn’t much there, but neither does my own corporate site. I’m always working on someone else’s and not my own, so it’s still “under construction” and has been for many years. Anyway, at this point, nothing seemed out of the ordinary, so I decided to respond.
To: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
From: Michael Ashby [michael@ashbygroup.com]
Date: 12/08/2004
Subject: RE: flamingball.com for sale?Thank you for your interest in one of my domain names. I don’t have any plans to sell the domain, however I would entertain an offer. You never know, it may just be too good to pass up.
—
Michael T. Ashby
Consultant
The Ashby Group
http://www.ashbygroup.com
The next day I received the following reply:
To: Michael Ashby [michael@ashbygroup.com]
From: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
Date: 12/08/2004
Subject: RE: flamingball.com for sale?We considered 3800 dollars.
Regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, Warmesoft.com
I had registered the domain name flamingball.com because I had thoughts of using it for this weblog. I’ve mentioned before how my good friend Chris said to me once, “I’ve heard of people burning the candle at both ends, but you’re just a flaming ball of wax.” I loved the analogy ever since. I’m probably going to stick with mashby.com for the near future, but I still like flamingball.com and plan to use it for something someday.
However, for $3,800 dollars, my love of the domain name went up like a puff of smoke. 😀 So I emailed back:
To: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
From:Michael Ashby [michael@ashbygroup.com]
Date: 12/08/2004
Subject: RE: flamingball.com for sale?I must say $3,800 certainly catches my attention. If I were to decide to sell you the domain name, how would this process work?
—
Michael T. Ashby
Consultant
The Ashby Group
http://www.ashbygroup.com
In reply, I received the following:
To: Michael Ashby [michael@ashbygroup.com]
From: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
Date: 12/08/2004
Subject: RE: flamingball.com for sale?First we advice you to visit Valdomains.com and order their free appraisal service to ensure our value is realistic. After that we can talk more about transactions.
Regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, Warmesoft.com
At this point I started to get a little concerned. I’ve never heard of someone getting their domain “valuated” in order to sell it. I went by the site they recommended Valdomains.com and had a look around. They offered a $20 “Advanced Appraisal” service, but they also offered a free one, so I opted for that. The next day I received the following e-mail from ValDomains.com:
To: mashby@gmail.com
From: support@valdomains.com [support@valdomains.com]
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:34:36 -0800
Subject: ValDomains.com Quick AppraisalDomain: flamingball.com
Value: $4200Please note that the value is estimated using quick analysis by its overall name value. Tolerance may be 10%-35%
We recommend our Advanced Appraisal service to get more detailed analysis and our official appraisal statement. http://www.valdomains.com
Best regards,
Paul Broman
Function Manager, ValDomains.com
After receiving the above e-mail, I have to admit that the hook was almost set. Warmesoft offered, $3,800 and now this e-mail was saying that it was worth $400 more. It was quite an attractive position to be in. Yet, at the same time, this all did seem a little bit too good to be true. I sensed that the next e-mail was going to say that the buyer wanted the $20 valuation. If so, that would mean that this whole discussion was nothing more than a ruse to get me to buy a valuation that I didn’t need.
I forwarded the information that I received from Valdomains.com and in a few days I received the following response:
To: mashby@gmail.com
From: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:13:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Fwd: ValDomains.com Quick AppraisalThank you. That looks great!
But we need to see an official appraisal for domains priced in that range, because the tolerance is too wide in the attached appraisal. Our partners (webmasters and domain owners) always recommend to verify an independent appraisal first. It would be fair for both of us.
Do you have an official appraisal certificate for your domain? Please note that we don’t trust unprofessional appraisals. It can be an official appraisal certificate from GreatDomains.com, ValDomains.com or Hollywooddomains.com. It does not matter because all of them are trusted professional companies and we know their services are realiable and accurate.
How do you prefer to get paid: PayPal, check or wire?
Looking forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, Warmesoft.com
That’s when I decided that this HAD to be a scam. If his client truly offered $3,800 then what would a valuation be necessary. I bought a few domains from my friend Mike Rohde and I never used a valuation service. He offered a price, I took it, it’s as simple as that. Jan Schmidt just wanted me to spend $20 for nothing. So I ended the process with the following e-mail
To: Jan Schmidt [schmidt@warmesoft.com]
From: mashby@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:13:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Fwd: ValDomains.com Quick AppraisalJan,
Thank you for your interest in my domain, flamingball.com, but I’m afraid I’m unwilling to continue any further with this process.
It would appear that this correspondence with you has been nothing but an attempt for me to purchase a valuation service from ValDomains.com. For that reason, it would appear that your interest in my domain is not legitimate.
You made an offer of $3800 and I was willing to consider it. I don’t see how a valuation from a 3rd party contributes to this negotiation. If you truly wanted the domain, you would simply make an offer and that would be that.
If you have a valid offer, I’ll entertain it, otherwise our business is done.
—
Michael T. Ashby
http://www.mashby.com
http://www.ashbygroup.com
$3,800 would be nice, especially this time of year. Had I not been more knowledgeable about the process, I can see people could fall for this scam. At the minimum, they would have taken $20 out of my pocket, however they would also have my credit card information. Knowing that this company is involved with deceitful e-mail, what’s to say that they wouldn’t use my credit card and stack a pile of unauthorized charges against it?
So if you receive and e-mail such as what I received, please beware. I’m not saying that all parties interested in purchasing your domain name are false, just those that ask for some kind of up front money, or valuation service.
Easy come, easy go ! So what goodies did you plan to buy? A U2 IPOD perhaps? Merry Christmas!
Thanks for the Christmas wishes Kerry! Merry Christmas to you too.
Don’t have my eyes set on anything in particular. I did manage to buy a new DVD burner for myself as an earlly Christmas present though.
I’m currently playing with a 17″ G4 iMac that my mother purchased for herself as a Christmas present. It’s a VERY sweet machine and I’m kind of sorry I tipped her off to the ultra good deal.
Otherwise, I’m hoping to just get a little quiet time in! 😀
Thanks for sharing this! I’ve some experience with these too.
First of all I think Valdomains.com is innocent, I’ve ordered two appraisals from them (for myself, not for Warmesoft) and they were very friendly and professional and answered quickly to my inqueries.
I found this article and became suspicous. I contacted Valdomains.com and they seem to have an affiliate program. That would explain everything. Maybe Warmesoft uses unethical methods to get commissions? I informed this to Valdomains.com and I hope they will investigate this issue…
Mashby, you didn’t see that Valdomains uses Paypal, so they wont ever get peoples credit card numbers.
– Peter
Peter,
Thank you for the feedback. You clearly looked a bit deeper into ValDomains.com than I did. I saw how similar the e-mails were from both parties and just assumed they were one in the same.
Again, thanks for your feedback and detail.
OMG I am a sucker!!! I was taken by this scam!!!
They offered 4500 for amazingdate.com
That i own. I did the free appraisal at valdomains.com and warmesoft responded to me saying they need a validated appraisal in order to payout a large amount of money. I have no idea about the business of domain name sales. And it looked like a totally legitimate offer. but after i paid the 20 bucks for the appraisal and this is the letter they sent me .
Thank you for the appraisal. But we are afraid
to say that against our expectations our company’s
specialists suddenly decided not to purchase
your domain due to low commercial development
potential values. We have to cancel our offer.
We apologize any inconveniences.
If you are still willing to sell your domain we
encourage you to submit your domain (with
appraisal) to major domain auction sites
like afternic.com and sedo.com. We believe you
can easily find a buyer since the appraisal
appears to be very attractive to common domain
name market. We wish you good luck!
Regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, Warmesoft.com
Lisa,
I’m sorry to hear that Warmesoft used this scam against you.
The only suggestion I can think of is to take this issue up with Valdomains to see if they will return your money. If what Peter says is true, then Valdomains needs to know that Warmesoft if using unfair practices as part of their affiliate program and needs to be removed as an affiliate.
If Valdomains is as legit as Peter claims, then they should return your money.
Best of luck!
I fell for this too. Valdomains sent the following response when I alerted them:
————————————–
Thank you for notifying us. We will pay attention to this.
We have to say that the information your link provided is insufficent to draw conclusion that you are being scammed. We can’t offer you a refund based on your opinion.
Status of your order is that it will be ready today. You will receive an email later today.
Regards,
Paul Broman
Function Manager
ValDomains.com
———————————————–
However, I noticed in the mean time that both this Paul Broman and Jan Schmidt had VERY similar signatures too and I think they indeed are one in the same (note the carriage returns and period at the end are exactly the same!):
Jan:
———————————————-
Best regards,
Jan Schmidt
Business Manager, WarmeSoft.com
.
———————————————-
Paul:
———————————————-
Best regards,
Paul Broman
Function Manager, ValDomains.com
.
———————————————-
Peter,
I’m sorry to hear that you were scrammed. I’m inclined to agree with you regarding the similarity between the two companies. In fact, I thought the same thing when I received the first e-mail from Valdomains and noticed the similarity. It wasn’t until Peter (the first one) posted his comment that I began giving Valdomains the benefit of the doubt.
However, thanks to your post, it would appear that if they aren’t the same company, they are at least not willing to look into the problem and are clearly benefiting from Warmesoft’s less-than-above-board business practices. That lowers Valdomains down to the same level and as such I would warn everyone to stay clear of either company.